tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post3239902666518148233..comments2023-05-14T21:11:23.699-04:00Comments on CHEESEBURGER BROWN: Story Wallah: The Secret Mathematic - Chapter Twenty-SevenCheeseburger Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01384136287767500794noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-45580671124866390362008-08-10T03:37:00.000-04:002008-08-10T03:37:00.000-04:00I've heard Twinkie and Oreo before, although I can...I've heard Twinkie and Oreo before, although I can see why an alternative to twinky would want to be found as soon as possible. It has it's alternative uses. I haven't heard one for natives, although I've spent the VAST majority of my time in the nicer suburbs of Minneapolis, which is DOMINATED by caucasians. Of course, there exists a word for caucasians too, no matter what they are on the inside: douchebags.<BR/><BR/>I am, of course, an upper-middle class white collar white boy in a college town, just so you know where I'm coming from - The deepest darkest depths of Suburbia/Disturbia.<BR/><BR/>TRHTeddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06429915965397673079noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-25486442800019174952008-08-08T16:28:00.000-04:002008-08-08T16:28:00.000-04:00CBB and Gang, here in the SW US, we Natives use "A...CBB and Gang, here in the SW US, we Natives use "Apple". We don't have lobsters in the desert. I am half Hispanic and Half Native and have been called apple a few times.<BR/>I am an Urban Indian, meaning I have left the Pueblo(reservation)I am from.Big thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03728437300843445339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-17069865988798647132008-08-08T15:34:00.000-04:002008-08-08T15:34:00.000-04:00Hmm... so it's sort of a dual foil situation.Simon...Hmm... so it's sort of a dual foil situation.<BR/><BR/>Simon, what has evan written? Or, perhaps I should say... Evan, what have you written? The Burger doesn't mind if you plug a little here.<BR/><BR/>CBB, get some rest, man. No sense killing yourself over this; we'll wait until you get back.<BR/><BR/>Fooburger, regarding the giants: are you nuts? Or just nihilistic/masochistic?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-42946012916574421652008-08-07T18:01:00.000-04:002008-08-07T18:01:00.000-04:00Simply fantastic. I can't believe I have been wit...Simply fantastic. I can't believe I have been without internet service starting the very freaking day this posted. Would have been frantic if I had known what I missing. <BR/><BR/>I'll leave the grammar/spelling editing to others.<BR/><BR/>Really like the way Sky loosens up around other natives. The Westernized injun with the meters of dix needs to be fleshed out a little though. He doesn't appear to have a personality. Seems his only purpose is to give Etienne something to be contrasted against. That doesn't work so much if you are trying to contrast someone against an undefined aspect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-2584993840246927912008-08-07T12:16:00.000-04:002008-08-07T12:16:00.000-04:00Tangentially, one of the bedtime stories I've read...Tangentially, one of the bedtime stories I've read to my boys is "Glooscap and His People". It was neat to see him make a cameo in a CBB narrative.<BR/><BR/>I agree, Evan, about your assertion that strict editing is the crucible through which all writing must be forced, so that it is tempered and better able to withstand the unkind criticism of public consumption. And I've made a habit of reading far more than a quarter of what you write.<BR/><BR/>Looking forward to chapter 28, CBB. I'll be as critical as I can when I read through it.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06946639624660520997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-90672668198002831002008-08-07T08:55:00.000-04:002008-08-07T08:55:00.000-04:00Monday is cool, it will be a nice start for the wo...Monday is cool, it will be a nice start for the work week. Keep doing what you do. Lord knows we aren't going anywhere.<BR/><BR/>Regarding "dix". I asked my wife about the pronunciation of this word, and she informed me that she did, in fact say "deese" and that I should probably clean my ears.<BR/><BR/>I love that womanErichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05571302657092617699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-75855672936102327742008-08-07T07:42:00.000-04:002008-08-07T07:42:00.000-04:00It'll be Monday, folks.Sorry.All my time's been su...It'll be Monday, folks.<BR/><BR/>Sorry.<BR/><BR/>All my time's been sucked away.<BR/><BR/>Grr.<BR/><BR/>CBBCheeseburger Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01384136287767500794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-84726259489927780012008-08-07T00:29:00.000-04:002008-08-07T00:29:00.000-04:00I think the article pointed to by the link is some...I think the article pointed to by the link is some sort of a joke... perhaps a sly inside one... but it's something a couple string theorists probably came up with over a few beers.<BR/>Never heard anybody seriously consider that such incredibly macroscopic events such as the abandonment of the SSC are in some way quantum mechanically inclined. It's inclusion kind of rips the joke open.<BR/>They really provide no calculations of any merit at all, but rather throw out equations and then say "some expect this to be (insert random order of magnitude here)"<BR/>This is significantly different in character from the admittedly few other string-theory type presentations/papers I've seen.<BR/><BR/>Honestly, I like the CBB explanations better. :)<BR/><BR/>note: high energy and string theory are not my areas of physics expertise...<BR/><BR/>Dunno... I'm still secretly hoping the extinct race of giants felix encountered is involved in this, but my hopes are fading.. :)fooburgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00598732577922981025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-90882544540852324922008-08-06T23:27:00.000-04:002008-08-06T23:27:00.000-04:00Wow; that article (and the resulting comments) too...Wow; that article (and the resulting comments) took way too much of my time.<BR/><BR/>I agree with the guy who suggested it was all a dodge because somebody's going to miss a deadline.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-35130727785319581092008-08-06T23:06:00.000-04:002008-08-06T23:06:00.000-04:00Cheeseburger Brown said...Linkis it april again al...<I><BR/>Cheeseburger Brown said...<BR/>Link<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>is it april again already?Tolomeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16384928311920896699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-84647608019534527692008-08-06T18:15:00.000-04:002008-08-06T18:15:00.000-04:00Simon: I don’t think these are Sky’s Zhang limbs, ...Simon: I don’t think these are Sky’s Zhang limbs, because his right hand still whirs and clicks when he grabs things.<BR/><BR/>Dan: Speed drills, a diet heavy in antioxidants, and too much time on my hands.<BR/><BR/>Eric: Hey, man, I feel you. Far as I’m concerned, they can keep their fancy French “language,” we don’t need it. <I>Freedom fries,</I> you know what I’m saying?<BR/><BR/>Mark: You’re absolutely right, in that we shouldn’t lose sight of the forest for the trees. The Burgermeister is fabulously creative. Reading this blog is like watching a magician pull a rabbit out of a hat, and then watching the rabbit pluck a dove from its ear, the dove saw the magician in half, and the magician’s left leg make a space shuttle disappear. The beauty of his work, though, is his ability to express that raw creativity in well-constructed prose. I keep coming back because he’s a storyteller who is also technically proficient in his craft. At the same time, the writing process is vicious and unsavory; criticism is the author’s heroin, and good readers are dealers. <BR/><BR/>I learned this when I wrote a 350,000 word story over the course of my junior and senior years of high school, with about 20 or 30 people reading the irregular installments. They were just friends, friends of friends, a few teachers—people I knew from around the way. Everyone kept giving me positive feedback, and of course that made me feel good. After a while though, I started asking, “Well, what don’t you like? Where is it least interesting? What could I be doing <I>better?</I>” People pointed out word omissions, confusing descriptions, lazy scene construction—obvious stuff I could catch myself. I got frustrated because no one was telling me anything meaty. I was 18 and had never written a story before. There <I>had</I> to be issues. <BR/><BR/>But no one had any. They ate it up. Keep going, write faster, good work. After a while I was annoyed by the praise, and eventually came to despise it. The story was ‘good.’ I was doing a ‘good’ job. In my mind, high fives became slaps in my face—I didn’t want to be congratulated, I wanted someone to tell me I was doing something wrong. I eventually realized that my peers, like me, were too inexperienced to know where the flaws in my work were. <BR/><BR/>Writing is like boxing—if someone’s not hitting you in the head, you’re either the world champion or an inconsequential lout. In either case, your career is in imminent danger of losing all momentum and careening off a cliff. Creative works are like bread dough—you gotta punch them down a few times before they’re ready to bake. Are you feeling all of these descriptions? I’m unstoppable. I’m like the <I>Juggernaut.</I><BR/><BR/>I’m not trying to bust your chops with this long reply, Mark, understand. I’m just a loquacious blowhard, and I know people read about a fourth of what I type. It’s cool. My stance is merely that editing sucks. It’s a black hole of condensed tedium and despair. It’s also unfortunately the crucible without which nothing changes for the better. You, me, all of us—together—have a sacred duty to bring all issues we have with the text to bear, because even if the Big Cheese doesn’t bother to change <I>this</I> sentence or <I>that</I> description, he’ll improve all of his future endeavors every time he considers doing so. The reason we are resigned to nit-picking is precisely because the Brown Bear already has most of his ducks in a row.<BR/><BR/>Cheeseburglar: Honestly, I’m thankful that I don’t understand particle physics. I don’t think I could handle that burden.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-8663031004037237512008-08-06T14:13:00.000-04:002008-08-06T14:13:00.000-04:00that link is awesome, cheeseburger. if anyone else...that link is awesome, cheeseburger. if anyone else goes, do be sure to read the comments, too. :)gl.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03216590789836132321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-8325608603620512492008-08-06T13:03:00.000-04:002008-08-06T13:03:00.000-04:00Link<A HREF="http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/230" REL="nofollow">Link</A>Cheeseburger Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01384136287767500794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-23957752783146076372008-08-06T12:24:00.000-04:002008-08-06T12:24:00.000-04:00another CBB project which will see the light of da...<I>another CBB project which will see the light of day on August 15th</I><BR/><BR/>My birthday present! Yay!SaintPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02064605142705446251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-22495384959553394622008-08-06T11:58:00.000-04:002008-08-06T11:58:00.000-04:00Thanks for the fixes, everyone. With respect to M...Thanks for the fixes, everyone. With respect to Mark's comment ("I hope we're not getting too hung up on word choice or sentence structure..."), I'd like to reiterate that I really do appreciate/need this kind of purely mechanical feedback as much or more than any other kind. Nit-pick to your heart's content if it's your 'druthers, as it only benefits the text.<BR/><BR/>While Mark does point out that these chapters are a "first draft" of sorts, it shouldn't escape our collective attention that I have a poor history for even working up the gumption to <I>do</I> second drafts. Like many chronic typists, I'd rather have an excellent editor to guide me than a comparatively random second kick at the can.<BR/><BR/>On a technical point, I believe the correct pronunciation of "dix" is closer to <I>deese</I> than <I>dee</I> -- at least with a Canadian accent, which, on second thought, may not be the best metric since I have relatives who pronounce the final <I>i</I> in phrases like "depeche-toi!" (rendering it as "d'pish toy!", a noise which al-Qaeda uses to torture French prisoners). We also say abhorrent things like "beaucoup de fun."<BR/><BR/>Orick asked whether or not native people actually do accuse one another of being "lobsters" and the truth of it is that I have no idea. I asked a couple of native friends what they might call someone who had fully integrated with Euro-American society and their rather disappointing but consistent answer was, "Canadian." So, I made up "lobster" (as far as I know), imagining it could work in the same vein as an "oreo" (Westernized black*) or "banana" (Westernized oriental*).<BR/><BR/>* Please substitute whatever descriptive term for visible minorities acceptable according to the standards of your community. I know some people get uppity about that sort of thing, but others don't. If I called one of the black people in my office an "African-Canadian" I think they'd laugh themselves silly.<BR/><BR/>I haven't yet finished off Chapter 28 because my time is being sucked away by another CBB project which will see the light of day on August 15th. I hope I can snag some time for it tonight. Cross your fingers for me.<BR/><BR/>Love,<BR/>Cheeseburger BrownCheeseburger Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01384136287767500794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-21688820678637562162008-08-06T11:36:00.000-04:002008-08-06T11:36:00.000-04:00Chemical Weapon Minks. Reminds me of something......Chemical Weapon Minks. Reminds me of something..."Beware the Atomic Badgers"bilhelm96https://www.blogger.com/profile/15498973297025243828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-77974038209476542332008-08-06T09:51:00.000-04:002008-08-06T09:51:00.000-04:00speaking of reverse racism, is "lobster" a real te...speaking of reverse racism, is "lobster" a real term like "banana" and "coconut" or did you make that up, CBB?Orick of Torontohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07151258407218493474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-75188919240660630832008-08-06T09:01:00.000-04:002008-08-06T09:01:00.000-04:00Eric's problem with 'dix' might be the same one I ...<I>Eric's problem with 'dix' might be the same one I had at first, that he thinks it should actually be 'six.' I thought that you, CBB, were getting the ball rolling on some elaborate joke about genitalia with your "what don't you like about dix?" question. Then I remembered that some people speak French, unlike me, and dix means ten. So there you go.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm glad you wrote this, because I thought the same thing. I was even on the verge of making a comment about being intimidated by having "dix" and "metres" in the same sentence. Glad I didn't go there.<BR/><BR/>My wife, who is Canadian and speaks French, has since corrected me and told me that it is pronounced "dee" and that I need to get my mind out of the gutter.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05571302657092617699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-6584585812981803952008-08-06T01:53:00.000-04:002008-08-06T01:53:00.000-04:00Really brought HP Lovecraft to my mind here. Yeah...Really brought HP Lovecraft to my mind here. Yeah, it seems that Sky is more willing to smirk and drink tea with fellow natives?<BR/><BR/><BR/>In this section, I am very confused... Mr. M disappears into something.. then they glance over their shoulders to match the trajectory of his beam?<BR/>I don't quite get it.... seems confusing... though later on I ignore it... <BR/><BR/>Then... there's this large room... and they can see small dead insects on the sludge and describe the shape of the insects?<BR/><BR/><BR/>----<BR/>darkness extending into humming catacombs. He turns and disappears into the nearest aperture.<BR/><BR/>Etienne and Gerard follow, glancing over their shoulders. Both stop dead once they have turned the corner, craning their heads upward in unison to match the trajectory of Mr. Mississauga's beam.<BR/><BR/>"Ho-ly f..." says Gerard.<BR/><BR/>A jungle of exposed roots hangs from the ceiling of the vast, irregular chamber, a tangle of twisting filaments forming a thick veil terminating in a pool of noxious, viscous fluid comprising the whole of the floor. The liquid is brown and pungent. Etienne and Gerard throw their arms over their noses in defense against the stink.<BR/><BR/>A number of very small dead insects float in the thick sludge, double wings set on either side of a tapering, triple section body. The mottling on the carapace forms the uncanny impression of a human face near the top of the thorax, the head's furry mandibles curled like hair.fooburgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00598732577922981025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-24760605753729752312008-08-05T23:35:00.000-04:002008-08-05T23:35:00.000-04:00Oh, dang."They see Glooscap, He Who is Made of Wor...Oh, dang.<BR/><BR/><I>"They see Glooscap, He Who is Made of Words."</I><BR/><BR/>or, according to Wikipedia, "Man [created] only from speech."<BR/><BR/>Dang.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-21704644685748434132008-08-05T23:30:00.000-04:002008-08-05T23:30:00.000-04:00Simon, IIRC, Mr. Miss had one "non-wooden" limb al...Simon, IIRC, Mr. Miss had one "non-wooden" limb all the way back in <I>Stubborn Town</I>; without it, he would have been able to do very little indeed. Besides, if Evan is right about the timing, this would be a year or so before the Shah's "Endgame" declaration.<BR/><BR/>Can't, can't wait for good ol' twenty eight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-55929410872845168142008-08-05T21:58:00.000-04:002008-08-05T21:58:00.000-04:00The imagination it takes to come up with a chapter...The imagination it takes to come up with a chapter like this blows me away. It's one thing to write well, but to be a great storyteller is something special. I hope we're not getting too hung up on word choice or sentence structure in these first drafts. That said, I believe "the doors fold open, which causes" is fine because the folding action causes, not the doors. Perhaps "the doors fold open and cause" would have been better, unless you go for Evan's final version, which seems to flow better. (see what I did there?)Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08722639974320971726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-91556522355714596542008-08-05T19:39:00.000-04:002008-08-05T19:39:00.000-04:00Evan, How do you maintain that Cheeseburgerpedia i...Evan, <BR/><BR/>How do you maintain that Cheeseburgerpedia in your head!?!?!?!<BR/><BR/>THE DanimalDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01657614872089173887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-6107968574665771342008-08-05T16:20:00.000-04:002008-08-05T16:20:00.000-04:00First paragraph: The “far above, down below” doesn...First paragraph: The “far above, down below” doesn’t work for me—the planes are far above what? The skyscrapers. The cicadas are where? Ten or twenty miles outside the city. The spacial relation of the jets and bugs makes the comparison awkward.<BR/><BR/>Etienne walks out of his house and crosses his arms while watching a plume of dust. It’s too much for him to do in one sentence, and he probably wasn’t watching the plume while walking out of the house. Make the plume its own sentence—“…crosses his tanned arms. A plume of dust makes its slow way along the road down by the river.” The scene is familiar enough to anyone who has ever watched a movie with a farmhouse in it that we can assume he’s watching the dust plume. Also, “as it nears” should have a comma after it in the last sentence of this paragraph.<BR/><BR/>The schoolbus doors fold open, “which causes a battered red stop sign…” Causes should be ‘cause’, because the doors are multiple—however, I think the causation is too cerebral for the scene, and a simple “doors fold open AND a battered red stop sign swings…” would suffice. Even though the sign is technically controlled by the doors, you aren’t describing a Rube Goldberg machine, so it’s beside the point.<BR/><BR/>Etienne “begins walking out to meet” Miss. I always find myself writing these kinds of sentences and trust me, you don’t want to get into that habit—‘begins doing anything’ almost always translates into “This is a wasted sentence.” Since it took no story-time for Etienne to actually reach Miss and shake his hand, he didn’t ‘begin walking’ to meet him, he just walked over.<BR/><BR/>Maybe the house should be ‘AN antique’ or ‘antiquated’ instead of “antique.”<BR/><BR/>Miss saying ‘thank you’ for the tea—feels a bit misplaced because Etienne is the true subject of the preceding sentence. Maybe move it out of the paragraph and add ‘said Mr. Mississauga.’<BR/><BR/>Miss smirking at Etienne really threw me off. Smirking seems too normal for Sky’s MO, to be honest. Especially since when Etienne asks if he’s taken his spirit walk, Miss gets all grim and says his life is a spirit walk. Miss’s deep sleep experiences seem much too traumatic for him to be able to smirk about them. He smirks a lot in this chapter, actually. What an acerbic SOB.<BR/><BR/>Once Miss and Etienne start talking about the awa-hon-do, Etienne starts getting spastic. He can’t say three sentences without walking to the window, or shaking his head, or sighing, or doing a cartwheel—it’s distracting.<BR/><BR/>The children dream about Glooscap: “as it was on fire still” is missing an ‘if’<BR/><BR/>When talking the “strip of glen,” you call it “a small valley of natural bush.” Is that right? Should it be brush? Seems like it could be correct, in an Australian outback sort of way, I guess.<BR/><BR/>Miss kneels to examine the rabbit in the bone room. How does he manage to prod it with his toe?<BR/><BR/>The ‘undead’ leg thing got me too. ‘Dead,’ sure. ‘Lifeless,’ naturally. Dunno about ‘undead’<BR/><BR/>Miss says that whoever’s behind this underground factory is taking advantage of the GE canola’s make-up—it’s not clear to me that the canola being engineered has anything to do with it. Miss admits he’s neither a botanist nor a chemist—I don’t see why he’d make that conclusion, either.<BR/><BR/>Etienne and Gerard rub shoulders for comfort in a tunnel: you may want to get rid of “against one another,” because it’s almost like saying “against each other,” and it reminds me of those series of balls tied to a frame to illustrate conservation of momentum, you know?<BR/><BR/>After Miss is ‘bit’ by the moos-bas, Etienne leans “into” a wall. Maybe “against” would be better.<BR/><BR/>Etienne says the moos-bas are moving beneath Montreal: he “presses lips together.” Forgot a ‘his’<BR/><BR/>Miss talks about dreaming being a data analysis/compression: he claims he is capable of “tuning it toward a wilful end.” Probably should be turning and willful.<BR/><BR/>Etienne “looks up from this GPS,” ‘this’ should be ‘his’ <BR/><BR/>At the end, Gerard says “But, Etienne – what can we do?” but you don’t assign the statement to him. Probably should.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Eric's problem with 'dix' might be the same one I had at first, that he thinks it should actually be 'six.' I thought that you, CBB, were getting the ball rolling on some elaborate joke about genitalia with your "what don't you like about dix?" question. Then I remembered that some people speak French, unlike me, and dix means ten. So there you go. <BR/><BR/>I liked the angle of natives trying to keep with the old ways while keeping stride with the 21st century. I think Miss drinking Etienne's tea is one of the most momentous characterizations in the canon. And let me just say this--how lucky are reverse-racists that so many foods are white one the inside? I mean, really! If white people were blue or something, they'd really be in a fix, you know?<BR/><BR/><BR/>My speculation on who Miss is bumping heads with in Chapter 28? Tennyson Smith. 'Underground Trees' is one of the casefiles Sun Kim notices in The Extra Cars (6), and Miss has the book Jesus and the Automaton in that story as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16435271.post-427633248065370432008-08-05T14:53:00.000-04:002008-08-05T14:53:00.000-04:00calussed => callussedGPS stops working as soon ...calussed => callussed<BR/><BR/>GPS stops working as soon as you go underground. mine loses signal going under bridges sometimes. maybe a compass would work better in this context?<BR/><BR/>Seems a like a very interesting detour from secret math.Orick of Torontohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07151258407218493474noreply@blogger.com